Faith, Folly, and the Hatred of the World
I had another post planned for this morning but this emailed question just came in and as I was answering it I thought i'd include you in the conversation. A friend sent me the following:
My reply was;
What do you think?
Hi Pastor Tim,
What are your views and/or our churches view on "tests of faith" regarding the healing of sickness in people through faith and prayer alone ?
I site the case in Wisconsin where a man (Dale Neumann) was charged with second degree reckless homicide in the death of his daughter who had undiagnosed diabetes. He refused to take his daughter (Madeline) to a doctor even though she had symptoms. She eventually became gravely ill and died on the floor while a prayer group stood over her. The father later testified that " If I went to the doctor, I'm putting the doctor before God". The father had once studied to be a Pentecostal minister. Doctors who testified in the case said that there was a good chance Madeline would have survived if she had gotten the correct meds. including insulin.
What a shame and very sad. I pray that the girl is in heaven and I pray for her parents who are now being persecuted. I personally don't think that going to the doctor is putting a doctor before God. I think doctors were given their expertise, talent and knowledge by God and are tools to be used by him in the healing of sickness. Not everyone can be a doctor, I know I couldn't do it. The other question is: Should this man be put in jail for testing his faith ? I believe his wife was already found guilty and jailed. I feel this gives the liberal media and government another reason to attack fellow Christians. I feel that we as Christians are stereotyped by non Christians and that the results of this mans decision feed that stereotype. I feel a need to defend myself and my faith to people who think that I am another "Dale Neumann". I did not have a chance to talk to Dr. Joe about this but I'm sure he would probably get fired up and have some strong views of his own. I'm just looking for some comfort in your thoughts about this. This has been troubling me the past couple of days.
thanks
My reply was;
Great questions brother.
I only have time for a brief answer bro, but here goes.
I believe in healings, but I also believe God uses doctors at times to bring about that healing. This man’s faith, while sincere, is sadly misguided and as you suggest, almost embarrassing to the testimony of Jesus. This family is clearly the victim of some very bad teaching and theology. They don’t know their Bibles very well, and the result has been tragic.
However, I’m not sure the man should be put in jail for acting on what he honestly believes. But I also know that the world will seize every chance it gets to mock and persecute Christians. This is where the world is so hypocritical. On the one hand if Christians really live what they believe and do daring things for God in that faith, the world calls them fanatics and weirdoes. On the other hand if we don’t live to the max what we believe, or if we somehow fall short, they call us hypocrites.
Jesus addressed this in Luke 7:31-35 when he tells the world of His day: “You can’t make up your mind. If someone comes from God being really “holy” and separated from worldliness (like John the Baptist) you reject him, but if Someone else (like Jesus) comes along who seems worldly—he eats and drinks with sinners-you call him a hypocritical glutton and unholy drunk. The world will condemn Christians no matter what they do.
I grieve for the misguided faith of this now grieving and assaulted father, and I pray for him to see greater light and to have great comfort as he has to face himself and his grief for the rest of his days. I'm afraid he may receive harsh treatment for doing a wrong (however sincere his intent); something Peter warns us aboutin 1 Peter 4:13-16.
At the same time, the way the world is reacting is typical of the ungodly; they simply cannot be pleased—which goes to show that in the final analysis, humans will always find an excuse not to believe. The reason the world condemns Christians no matter what they do is because it is trying to hide from God behind finger-pointing hypocrisy. The world figures that if it can label Christians as either ungodly hypocrites or weird fanatics, it won’t have to face the claims and truth of Christ Himself.
It’s weak, wimpy, and cowardly, but it’s the way the world is.
There’s a perspective for the moment my friend. A lot more could be said, but that’s all that time allows. Keep asking questions.
Your brother,
Tim
What do you think?
Labels: Faith, Healing, Persecution, The World
posted by Tim Shorey at
9:56 AM
6 Comments:
In my opinion, this man is not "almost an embarrasment", he is clearly an embarrasment. While I corroborate your sympathy for the family in their great grief, there is a very sobering lesson here. What be believe matters. The minutia of what we believe matters. While "renewing the mind transforms lives" (Rom. 12) The neglect or misguided mind can in many cases have deadly consequences.
When it comes to Theological training or teaching, often some brances of the church bury their heads in the sand. We are willing to be taught by a person who loves people or who has a burning desire to help others or even the gift to teach, but no solid training.
Let me ask a question, the next time you need bypass surgery, do you want a guy who really means well and who loves helping people, or do you want a Cardiac Surgeon who is Board Certified, Fellowship Trained, and who has succesfully completed 5,000 of these procedures already? Or again, the next time you need to fly to California, do want a pilot who is facinated with aerodynamics and who really loves to help people get to where they want to go? Not me, I want a pilot who knows that aircraft from stem to stearn and who has logged 30,000 hours in that particular craft. Why is it, when it comes to the church, we accept teaching from anyone who means well. The penticostal movement in America is notorious for a lack of basic Biblical knowledge.
With respect to how sincere we are in our sin, I'm not sure that sincerity is exculpatory. This sin, if commited by a true child of God is covered in the blood. However, the civil government not only has every right to punish, but we learn from the Apostle Paul that it is ordained by God and is obligated to punish what could be considered manslaughter, or at least possibly criminal neglect.
When it comes to the watching world, we should join them in the disgust for such misguidedness. Lest we be seen as those who condone lawlessness. Brothers, "be not decieved, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows, that also shall he reap".
My heart goes out to this family in their grief. We must learn from this event, lest it occured in vain. Our Theology matters, our associations matter, the thoughts we think matter. As the writer of the proverb states so eloquently, "whatsoever a man thinketh in his heart, so is he".
May God have mercy on me where my thoughts have lead to sin. What a truely sad turn of events for this man.
My thoughts.....
JR
I would not want my post to imply that I don't feel strongly about the wrongheadedness of what this man believes and did; even more strongly about the failed spiritual shepherds who led him miserably into tragedy. As to the criminality of this matter, I'd need to know more about it than I do.
I think I'm more indignant with this man's teachers and leaders than I am with him. How can pastors fail to pastor is the question that burns often in my soul?
I have people thank me for my care of their souls, not infrequently, adding words that they have never experienced such care before. Such appreciation does not feed pride in me; it yields grief.
Sheep need food and truth and pastures and safety and care and wisdom and deep waters from which to drink.
How can it be that pastors would lead sheep where this man was led?Woe to the sheep who have no shpherds.
Wise words. "Where there is no vision, (on the part of the prophets) the people perish." I thank God for wise Pastors.
JR
"And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his desease was exceeding great: yet in his desease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians."
2 Chron. 16:12
I have often wondered how I would respond if I were diagnosed with a serious and difficult cancer (or foot disease!) I have thought that perhaps I would do what the father we are discussing did, and cry out for healing and life. Perhaps I would turn the situation into a kind of fleece... "Lord, if you still want me here, then heal me."
I would not, however, do that in my child's illness. My faith, my fleece, and its consequences for me is one thing. But my faith, and it's consequences for my child is another matter.
Question: How would we feel about this man, and what would we say of him if there were a clearly miraculous healing for his child? Would we still so boldly state that it was a terribly misguided thing to do?
I think that it is commendable to have strong faith and trust in the healing grace of God and I would even commend making prayer for healing a matter of first resort (yes I wrote "first" so that we show by our actions that we trust God more than doctors, or whatever our own treatment of choice may be).
But the great concern at least i was expressing is over the simple bad theology that treats medicine as if it is bad or healing by miracle in this life as if it is an absolute birthright of every believer.
Such teachings are usually what is behind the tragedies such as we're reading about here. The ideas that we can name and claim such things, that we can create miracles by "word-faith", that to go to a doctor when prayers for direct healing have not rendered healing is an evidence of unbelief--are all ideas that are serious distortions of the Word. And they have led to untold grief.
I saw a short video recently by John Piper--you can UTube it (Google john Piper, prosperity gospel video)--in which he expresses his very strong feelings against the prosperity gospel (which is part of what we're talking about here). He despises these false teachings because they are destroying souls. In this particular case it destroyed a body too.
I admire the faith and the apparent sincerity; I simply grieve the error and ignorance that leads people to pursue folly in the name of faith.
Tim
Your last comment Tim seems to hit the issue square on the head---very well said.
This sad incident is an illustration of to us that doctrine matters, theology matters-----it is not an impractical irrelevancy to life. Theology has consequences, for good or evil, both for this life and the life to come. Bad theology can be very harmful----even kill.
We need to see and trust in God's power to bring healing directly, and we also need to see the Bible's teaching on common grace and the medical knowledge and gifts he has given to mankind for our blessing and good (it is not either/or, but both/and---with the emphasis exactly where you placed it---seeking and trusting God first)-----a theology of giftings if you will, both among the regenerate and yes, unregenerate, in all different spheres, that are not to be despised. It seem to me that only a full orbed grasp of Biblical teaching can see this clearly. This we must pursue.
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